Saturday, July 28, 2007
haha oh my gosh mr. sheehy, that is so messed up. good thing i'm not a harry potter fan :D. Pilate's death makes me mad too! It ruins her whole image of invincibility. yet she dies with such dignity and fearlessly. and although Hagar's death upset me as well, i guess it beats the whole cliche of women growing stronger and moving on or whatever.
i really do NOT understand the names in this book. Pilate is the one who kills Jesus because he is pressured to, but Pilate in this book can't be pressured by anybody to do anything that she doesn't think is right. Circe, isn't she the one that keeps Ulysses on that island for years and years? i don't see how that relates either. With the name Dead, i felt like that name was chosen because their family was stuck, they couldn't "fly," so it was like they were dead i guess? but then Milkman's grandfather didn't seem dead to me at all.
and with Hagar's death... Morrison can't be trying to say that women are weak and obsessive with men, because only two women are portrayed that way, three if you want to count Ruth. Hagar's own mother and sister are very strong. But she was babied and spoiled. Maybe she's saying that experience is essential for survival? Corinthians, Ruth, and Hagar were all protected or shut out from hard times by their family. Well, i can't say that Corinthians was exactly shut out from hard times, for she experienced her own personal obstacles. but she was protected from outside obstacles, i guess you can say.
i really do NOT understand the names in this book. Pilate is the one who kills Jesus because he is pressured to, but Pilate in this book can't be pressured by anybody to do anything that she doesn't think is right. Circe, isn't she the one that keeps Ulysses on that island for years and years? i don't see how that relates either. With the name Dead, i felt like that name was chosen because their family was stuck, they couldn't "fly," so it was like they were dead i guess? but then Milkman's grandfather didn't seem dead to me at all.
and with Hagar's death... Morrison can't be trying to say that women are weak and obsessive with men, because only two women are portrayed that way, three if you want to count Ruth. Hagar's own mother and sister are very strong. But she was babied and spoiled. Maybe she's saying that experience is essential for survival? Corinthians, Ruth, and Hagar were all protected or shut out from hard times by their family. Well, i can't say that Corinthians was exactly shut out from hard times, for she experienced her own personal obstacles. but she was protected from outside obstacles, i guess you can say.
Friday, July 27, 2007
7th Harry Potter Book
For every 12 hours without a post, I leak a new piece of information about the last Harry Potter book (spoiling it for all of you who have not read it yet). In the last book, Harry realizes that James Potter (his father) is actually Lord Voldemort. He killed Lily Potter because she was cheating on him with a werewolf. Reminded me a lot of Empire Strikes Back.
Start posting before I ruin the entire book for you.
SHeehy
Start posting before I ruin the entire book for you.
SHeehy
Favorite Paragraph
I couldn't resist. I think I have found a new favorite paragraph.
"Then let me give you a cool one," he said. He soaped and rubbed her until her skin squeaked and glistened like onyx. SHe put salve on his face. He washed her hair. She sprinkled talcum on his feet. He straddled her behind and massaged her back. SHe put witch hazel on his swollen neck. He made up the bed. SHe gave him gumbo to eat. He washed the dishes. She washed his clothes and hung them out to dry. He scoured her tub. She ironed his shirt and pants. He gave her fifty dollars. She kissed his mouth. He touched her face. She said please come back. He said I'll see you tonight.
"Then let me give you a cool one," he said. He soaped and rubbed her until her skin squeaked and glistened like onyx. SHe put salve on his face. He washed her hair. She sprinkled talcum on his feet. He straddled her behind and massaged her back. SHe put witch hazel on his swollen neck. He made up the bed. SHe gave him gumbo to eat. He washed the dishes. She washed his clothes and hung them out to dry. He scoured her tub. She ironed his shirt and pants. He gave her fifty dollars. She kissed his mouth. He touched her face. She said please come back. He said I'll see you tonight.
Are We Finished?
I assume most of you are finished and are itching to move on to The Milagro Beanfield War. But before we move on, what did you think of Song of Solomon? I have always had difficulty with the end of the novel for a number of reasons: Pilate’s death angers me, Guitar’s part in the death goes against the all that he represents, Hagar’s death upsets me, and much more. What did you think? Any personal response would be nice.
Aside from the gut responses, what did you find interesting about the novel. Naming/Names are very important in this novel, so does anyone have an answer so some of the names and their significance? Particularly Dead, Pilate, Circe, and Guitar.
I found a number of fairy tale references/allusions throughout the novel and I can’t seem to make sense of them…perhaps you all can help. The “secret power Rumpelstiltskin had given her: to see golden thread stream from her very own shuttle” (13-14); “When Hansel and Gretel stood…” (219); “Witches in black dresses and red underskirts…” (239); and “She lay in her little Goldilocks’-choice bed…” (314). I know these are purposeful, I just am not sure of the purpose.
Also, any comment on Milkman’s journey back to his ancestral past? He leaves the city, loses most of his goods, learns his history, and learns how to fly. Lots to comment on here.
What about Hagar’s death? I would love to hear from the ladies in the class about what Morrison might be suggesting with this death.
It is hard for me when I check our blog and see so few responses. I hoped this would be a forum for you all to discuss/debate/agree/etc.
Hope you all are well.
Sheehy
Aside from the gut responses, what did you find interesting about the novel. Naming/Names are very important in this novel, so does anyone have an answer so some of the names and their significance? Particularly Dead, Pilate, Circe, and Guitar.
I found a number of fairy tale references/allusions throughout the novel and I can’t seem to make sense of them…perhaps you all can help. The “secret power Rumpelstiltskin had given her: to see golden thread stream from her very own shuttle” (13-14); “When Hansel and Gretel stood…” (219); “Witches in black dresses and red underskirts…” (239); and “She lay in her little Goldilocks’-choice bed…” (314). I know these are purposeful, I just am not sure of the purpose.
Also, any comment on Milkman’s journey back to his ancestral past? He leaves the city, loses most of his goods, learns his history, and learns how to fly. Lots to comment on here.
What about Hagar’s death? I would love to hear from the ladies in the class about what Morrison might be suggesting with this death.
It is hard for me when I check our blog and see so few responses. I hoped this would be a forum for you all to discuss/debate/agree/etc.
Hope you all are well.
Sheehy
I am done reading...
I'm done reading "Song of Solomon." I understand the title and the song now. I thought the book explained most of the unclarities in the end. I liked it. I am moving on to "The Milagro Beanfield War."
Tuesday, July 24, 2007
hey everyone!
okay i have a question? not only did i read this book but i read the song of solomon from the bible thinking there may have been a connection... and i was right! What i am confused about though is if the bible version is being told from Lena or Corinthians point of view as the woman, because it says " i wish you were like my brother who was fed at my mother's breasts!" and it talks about twins alot and things being like velvet rose petals? or am i just dragging this all out? i dunno but i was real interested in that. and its kinda driving me crazy trying to figure it out.. so some insight would be incredbile :)...
<3>
okay i have a question? not only did i read this book but i read the song of solomon from the bible thinking there may have been a connection... and i was right! What i am confused about though is if the bible version is being told from Lena or Corinthians point of view as the woman, because it says " i wish you were like my brother who was fed at my mother's breasts!" and it talks about twins alot and things being like velvet rose petals? or am i just dragging this all out? i dunno but i was real interested in that. and its kinda driving me crazy trying to figure it out.. so some insight would be incredbile :)...
<3>
Monday, July 16, 2007
i guess what she means by her being a small woman is that she wasn't really exposed to anything, she didn't really have many experiences in life. i guess with the encounter of the outside world and the sense of danger and excitement you get from adventures, big or small like the ones the Milkman and Guitar went through when they were kids, sort of makes you bigger or expands your self, your personality and your knowledge of the world. all she knew was her father all her life, he was her sense of security. its like a puppy and its owner, the owner seems like the all powerful knowledgeable master while the puppy is just ..a puppy. i guess she felt that her dad knew everything and could take care of anything and was, as she said, big, while she didnt think she knew anything and looked up to her dad for support and all that.
but i dont think she is a small woman and i think she knows that she's not a small woman. she has the ability to drive her husband and her son mad. she shot her husband's blood level up with just a smirk. she knows this too, she knows that what she would say, "yes, i am my daddy's daughter" would get her husband mad, but she said it like it was just a little comment with no real meaning behind it. she keeps herself so calm every time her husband yells or hits her because she knows that its really her husband thats driving himself crazy; she knows that to cry or be bothered by his abuse would satisfy him. her whole "i am a small woman" speech was an attempt to justify herself.
and the juxtaposition of milkman's birth and the insurance man's death, i wasn't really sure what to make of that. but it seems like the whole peacock thing sort of ties into it. the peacock is obviously referring to macon, perhaps the death of the insurance man is foreshadowing milkman's fate if he doesn't "take the jewels off". the insurance man tried to fly yet his weight was what brought him down and killed him. the text repeats that milkman wants to fly and relates the peacock who is unable to fly because of the jewels to milkman who is unable to fly because of his vanity, his family, his past. perhaps what the author is trying to say is that he has to let go of the past in order to be able to fly. his family's past is driving him crazy.
but i dont think she is a small woman and i think she knows that she's not a small woman. she has the ability to drive her husband and her son mad. she shot her husband's blood level up with just a smirk. she knows this too, she knows that what she would say, "yes, i am my daddy's daughter" would get her husband mad, but she said it like it was just a little comment with no real meaning behind it. she keeps herself so calm every time her husband yells or hits her because she knows that its really her husband thats driving himself crazy; she knows that to cry or be bothered by his abuse would satisfy him. her whole "i am a small woman" speech was an attempt to justify herself.
and the juxtaposition of milkman's birth and the insurance man's death, i wasn't really sure what to make of that. but it seems like the whole peacock thing sort of ties into it. the peacock is obviously referring to macon, perhaps the death of the insurance man is foreshadowing milkman's fate if he doesn't "take the jewels off". the insurance man tried to fly yet his weight was what brought him down and killed him. the text repeats that milkman wants to fly and relates the peacock who is unable to fly because of the jewels to milkman who is unable to fly because of his vanity, his family, his past. perhaps what the author is trying to say is that he has to let go of the past in order to be able to fly. his family's past is driving him crazy.
Thursday, July 12, 2007
dream or reality?
oooookay, you guys are all obviously ahead of me. but one thing i have confused are Milkman's dreams. Like, i can't tell whether he's dreaming or not? Because he tells these surreal happenings in the middle of what seems to be an actual scene, like the one where he was walking in the crowd and everybody was pushing past him walking on one side, i thought that really happened because wasn't that when he was looking for Guitar after he hit his father? and then later he says "He remembered that long-ago evening after he hit his father how everybody was crammed on one side of the street... Nobody was going his way. It was as though Guitar had been in that dream too." But i thought that really happened, i am so confused. Also when he was telling of the "dream" he had of his mother, when she was planting tulips and they were growing and suffocating and killing her, he says "...he began to describe to Guitar a dream he had had about his mother. He called it a dream because he didn't want to tell him it had really happened, that he had really seen it." So... is it a dream or not? Or is he just a crazy guy that has these crazy hallucinations?
Wednesday, July 11, 2007
My first!
Sheehy, since I don't know how else to contact you but here... Ester asked for me to ask you to add her to this blog. Her email is estersongkim@gmail.com.
Oh and a question I have is about the watermark. The book says that she tried many ways to get it off, but then she really depends on it.
And that was interesting... I didn't know the stout woman was Ruth, the pregnant lady. Because I thought that Guitar had called the stout lady Granny; unless it was somebody else? :T Confusion there.
Oh and a question I have is about the watermark. The book says that she tried many ways to get it off, but then she really depends on it.
And that was interesting... I didn't know the stout woman was Ruth, the pregnant lady. Because I thought that Guitar had called the stout lady Granny; unless it was somebody else? :T Confusion there.
Monday, July 9, 2007
I read the part were Ruth tells Milkman her version of the story of her sucking her dead father's fingers, who has it right, Ruth or Macon Dead?? Judging by what she did with Milkman, breast-feed him even though he was too old for that, and that part where it talks about Ruth's unappropiate excitement when her father kissed her good-night, I think Ruth is perverted, that she did have a sexual relationship with her father. It seems to me that she is the kind of woman that needs a man in her life to give like a purpose or meaning to her life, I think so because she mentioned something like that when she was on her way to see Hagar to talk her out of killing Milkman. So she needs a man, and when she has one she like cares about only that man, like obsessed to the point that it turns into something like a perverted kind of love.......maybe.....what do you guys think???
It has been pretty quiet out there—I hope everyone is doing the reading. In fact, I want you to be finished with Part One very soon (day or two). When you finish Part One, feel free to respond to any of the following questions (or post questions of your own).
As a female writer, does Morrison accurately portray her male characters? This novel was her first attempt using a male protagonist, is she successful?
Part One focuses on three families—Pilate, Reba, and Hagar; Macon, Ruth, and children; Dr. Forster and Ruth. Each of these families is dysfunctional in their own way. How do the relationships in these families influence specific characters? For example, why does Hagar become crazy with her “anaconda love?” What do you make of Ruth’s “I am a small woman” speech? Magdalene and First Corinthians are relatively stagnant and without love, do you blame the men in their life for inability to function as adult women?
Milkman’s birth is simultaneous with the suicide of a man who leaps from the roof of the hospital. Any significance or reason for the juxtaposition of these two events?
Guitar and the Seven Days. There are many flaws in Guitar’s argument when he explains his involvement with the Seven Days, but I am curious if anyone thinks Guitar is somewhat justified and why. Also, I remember when I first studied this novel, a teacher told me that the Seven Days was grounded in historical truth. That was years ago. If someone would research this and share what they learn, I am sure we would all appreciate it.
The peacock becomes an obvious symbol, and potential foreshadowing, as we learn that peacocks cannot fly because “all that jewelry weighs it down. Like vanity. Cant nobody fly with all that shit. Wanna fly, you got to five up the shit that weighs you down.” Perhaps something here.
I admit that I still haven’t made much sense of Pilate’s lack of a navel. Her smooth stomach isolates her from society, since those who know of her condition shun her. Moreover, her physical condition symbolizes her thorough independence of others (even as a fetus…I guess). But what else? Anyone with something interesting to add to Pilate would be helpful.
These are just some starters…what else shall we talk about?
As a female writer, does Morrison accurately portray her male characters? This novel was her first attempt using a male protagonist, is she successful?
Part One focuses on three families—Pilate, Reba, and Hagar; Macon, Ruth, and children; Dr. Forster and Ruth. Each of these families is dysfunctional in their own way. How do the relationships in these families influence specific characters? For example, why does Hagar become crazy with her “anaconda love?” What do you make of Ruth’s “I am a small woman” speech? Magdalene and First Corinthians are relatively stagnant and without love, do you blame the men in their life for inability to function as adult women?
Milkman’s birth is simultaneous with the suicide of a man who leaps from the roof of the hospital. Any significance or reason for the juxtaposition of these two events?
Guitar and the Seven Days. There are many flaws in Guitar’s argument when he explains his involvement with the Seven Days, but I am curious if anyone thinks Guitar is somewhat justified and why. Also, I remember when I first studied this novel, a teacher told me that the Seven Days was grounded in historical truth. That was years ago. If someone would research this and share what they learn, I am sure we would all appreciate it.
The peacock becomes an obvious symbol, and potential foreshadowing, as we learn that peacocks cannot fly because “all that jewelry weighs it down. Like vanity. Cant nobody fly with all that shit. Wanna fly, you got to five up the shit that weighs you down.” Perhaps something here.
I admit that I still haven’t made much sense of Pilate’s lack of a navel. Her smooth stomach isolates her from society, since those who know of her condition shun her. Moreover, her physical condition symbolizes her thorough independence of others (even as a fetus…I guess). But what else? Anyone with something interesting to add to Pilate would be helpful.
These are just some starters…what else shall we talk about?
Thursday, July 5, 2007
Mr. Sample's first entry
Hello. I read Mr. Sheehy's admonition to use my own name after I had chosen this identity, so - sorry. I'll change if I can figure it out easily. I have read the first four chapters and can't understand why I'm not more enthusiastic about this writer. I admire her skill and I strongly feel the power of her characters and plots while I'm reading her work. Yes, she is obviously didactic and ideological, but I like other such writers, Jonathan Swift, for instance. Perhaps I simply don't my discomfort with racial issues: after all this time, I'm often unsure what to say or do about race in America. I don't mean to solve the problem, and I don't mean to decide how I should treat people I meet; I mean that I don't know how to react to racial bitterness or anger, much of which seems justified to me. And so I wonder if that confusion makes me reluctant to take Morrison more deeply into myself.
Wednesday, July 4, 2007
Don't be Scared
Happy 4th of July to all. I just want to remind everyone to contribute when you can. I think the book is a page turner and wouldnt be surprised if many of you finish it by next week. If you do, dont be afraid to post something in fear that you may spoil the plot for another student. Also, start responding to each other. This is not a question and answer session with the teacher, this is a class discussion.
What you post can be as simple as "I like..." or "That part reminded me of..."
Sheehy
What you post can be as simple as "I like..." or "That part reminded me of..."
Sheehy
Tuesday, July 3, 2007
I'm Confused
i've just started reading and im afraid of moving on because im getting confused with the scene on Not Doctor Street(pgs 4-9). With the pregnant lady and her kids, plus the singer, and some stout woman. Is the stout woman the pregnant person? i just need some clearing up. And the insurance guy is still about to jump off right? or did he jump already...AND, why are there hospital people outside? sorry...im just very confused. so i stopped there. clarifications would be much appreciated!!
YOURS TRULY, Tu-Uyen =)
YOURS TRULY, Tu-Uyen =)
Another Question
about the same scene. there was something about her "mouth on the dead man's fingers." and i was wondering what that was about. did she have an affair? and if not what turned sour in their relationship, cause it seemed like Macon and Ruth were romantic at sometime but now he's disgusted by her.
Sunday, July 1, 2007
Question
I'm confused. Chapter one, page 16. Morrison describes the sex scene. Is that between Ruth & Macon or Ruth & Milkman?
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