...

After FINALY finishing both books and reading your comments... thanks to those of you unlike me who blogged during the summer and asked the questions I'm sure we all had while reading, especially during Song of Solomon.

I would like to say that I really enjoyed the story structure they both had. The divided plot line confused me at first where the authors would mention something that was not yet explained (finger sucking SOS/Smokey the Bear MBW), but both had a way of giving the reader the background later on where you would get that whole "ohh" moment. I hadn't really read any books with that type of structure so predominant throughout the story. Good exposure.

I loved the character names in Song of Solomon and the whole overall theme of Milkman trying to fly and learning to find his place. I'm interested in finding out what you all thought of the symbols of the character names, and what the people represented as well as their motives. Why did Guitar change so much in the end, or was he just the same as before? Milkman's sisters Lena and First Corinthians still child like in their forties, Hagar's deadly affection for Milkman, Macon and Ruth's relationship/early courtship, and Pilate's navel. Morrison's character development lost me a little bit when she skipped through Milkman's life at times and there were other parts that left me confused (the whole killing of the man in the cave, the bag of bones, gold mystery). We'll talk in class.

Both authors were such descriptors!

John Nichols described some aspects well (the coyote, the dusty Milagro town) but it took me a while to understand his characters names/nicknames that were often too similar. I loved poor Herbie and the arm of Onofre. where did that come from? Nichols definitely had some OConnor-type characters. The whole Beanfield War got monotonous for me at times and I have lots of questions for you guys, but overall the story had some elements that interested me: Old vs. New, Race issues (as did Morrison of course), and the different characters' interpretations of life and value. What did the Beanfield actually represent?
Okay but the whole "Ai, Chihuahua" thing bugged me after the first couple of times, "que no?"

See you guys tomorrow
sorry sheehy for my lame procrastination on the blog

I sadly haven't read that far, but the current year in that book so far as I know is 1972.
Two more days before school starts and I'm still struggling to get through that book. >.> I get mixed up on which character is which, but it's interesting how the author sets up the background for each character (even though there are a lot of them with the same first name or last name or something). I think I like the one about Amarante Córdova the most right now...

Where has everyone been anyway?

The Milagro Beanfield War

Well hello to everyone. I hope everybody is having a good summer. Well I just wanted to know if anybody that is reading the book knows during what time period this book is taking place. I am really enjoying the book. I especailly like the way the writer sets up the scene and introduces all the the characters with a description. For example, the part where he descibes the relationship beteen Flossie and Shorty ( I think that was an example of what Viet had posted earlier about it having very descriptive sences). Well thats it for now. Bye.....

Oh well . . .

I should have read all the comments made since I left for vacation. I assumed they were mostly Harry Potter. Sonya already make Mr. Kundera's point. Sorry.

HP?

I haven't read Harry Potter, so I can't really comment there. I'll ask my wife who read it immediately.

I am enjoying Milagro Beanfield War. I hadn't read it before, nor have I seen the movie version. Like Song of Solomon, the book is obviously political and a bit preachy but not simplistic. A novelist I admire, Milan Kundera, says that literary novels are the place where every significant character has the right to be understood no matter what anyone, even the author, thinks of their behavior. Both of these books pass this test.

I'm not tearing through the book, but the writer knows some stuff, the characters are increasingly interesting, and the situation and events aren't completely obvious.

I doubt that contemporary high school students will read this without threats or rewards or some mix of both. Is anybody trying this one?

HP 7...

I hope this is okay to talk about.. harry potter is indeed a book, and a great story, so I'm going to continue on with this post.. The ending was so lame! I hated the whole long conversation, but I suppose it was nescessary. I just wish it happened differently. The whole memory was weird and made me see many plot holes and majorly drew my attention to how crafty JK really is. The epilogue was crap. Only it had to be that way I guess this way nothing is left unsaid or dealt and can't be changed if someone or even JK wanted to continue and fudge up the whole theory of 7 books to represent the lucky wizard number and for the years you attend hogwarts... Next post I should talk about Milagro Beanfield War, it's an okay book. Is anyone else reading it?

Harry Potter

I agree it was pretty cheezy and anticlimactic in the epilogue, but she ended it the way she had to. i would have been dissappointed otherwise, although i wish we heard more about the other characters.

Um okay...

So I have read about three really interesting books this summer (harry potter included) and started to read The Milagro Beanfield War and unfortunatly haven't started Song of Solomon, which is what everyone is talking about. I was wondering if we are supposed to read just one or both or only Song of Solomon. Also if we can talk about the other books we have read this summer, like the cheesy ending to harry potter and stuff like that... ?

SORRY i HADN'T POSTED ANYTHING

WELL HELLO HELLO i HOPE EVERYBODY'S SUMMMER IS GOOD...i'M SORRY i HADN'T WRITTEN BUT I DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE COMPUTER....BUT NOW I DO.....
i FINISHED READING SONG OF SOLEMON....i REALLY DID LIKE IT....AT FIRST IT WAS REALLY WEIRD AND ALL WITH THE LIL' MILKMAN AND THE MOM....BUT i DON'T NO I LIKED THE DESCRIPTION OF THE SCENES IT SEEMED THAT THE WRITER GOT REALLY INTO IT....
WELL i STARTED READING tHE MILAGRO BEANFIELD WAR AND ITS WIERD TOO.....
YUP BUT I CAN RELATE A LIL MORE BECAUSE OF THE NAMES IN SPANISH AND THE CHARACTERS WAYS....
BUT i STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY jOSE MONDRAGON STARTED THE WAR MAYBE I JUST HVEN'T READ ENOUGH BUT I'LL KEEP ON READING....
mR. SHEEHY MY BOOK IS MISSING PAGES.....YUP SOMEBODY RIPPED THE PAGES OUT....

Finally done with one

Okay, so first off Mr. Sheehy is a complete liar and don't believe anything he says about the last Harry Potter book which everyone needs to read. Anyways, I just finished Song of Solomon and while I think it was a good book, it was really slow until the last seventy or so pages when it got really interesting. Definitely a character driven book. The one thing that really jumped out at me was Morrison's objectivity toward her characters. I feel like that's the wrong word because it makes it sound like she's indifferent toward them, but it's the closest I can think of. Characters arent portrayed as good or bad and both sides are always shown. The closest you get to a "bad" person would be Macon Dead Jr., but his miserliness is quazi-justified by his love of his father. Pilate, Ruth, Macon, Milkman, Guitar could easily be criticized or disliked for things that they do, but Morrison doesn't give her opinion. I think she's the first author I've ever read who left me with a feeling like that. Like the characters aren't meant to be judged, but accepted for who they are, faults and all; just displayed for the reader's enjoyment. I'm still milling over the ending though and the way guitar turned out.

p.s.

oh and sheehy.. i think you posted it.. but that "favorite paragraph" post... that was the best, I love Sweet!

Finally got on...

hi! sorry this took me so long to get on. I finished Song of Solomon a while ago and i loved it. I actually was at the gym the other day and a woman next to me was reading it... so i decided to have a conversation about it and it was nice. She said Toni Morrison's book "Beloved" is great and even more twisted. Anyway, i started the other book and I'm having a hard time getting into it so far.... i think my mind is stuck on Pilate, Milkman, Guitar and if Milkman died...?

The Milagro Beanfield War

I finally finished reading the Milagro Beanfield War, I can say its an interesting book but for some reason it didnt capture me. Within the subsection there are multiple jumps from one situation to another. I didn't like this particular aspect of the book's structure because at parts the book becomes very interesting and it makes me want to read more and more, but when it hits a new section i started to loose interests. On the back of my mind I still wonder what will happen next but it takes a few scene to come back to the interesting scene. When i read the part of Ruby, Eliu, and Claudio attacking Montana in the mountains i was really interested but after the section finished it jumped into a whole new situation and i was pretty annoyed. This book also reminds me of Lysistra becuase of the strong sexual contents. I enjoyed reading this book but at times it becomes very boring. I am going to start reading Songs of Soloman next. I guesss i did the reverse, when I started to read this book before I realized the class was going to reading Songs of Soloman first.

i think we should analyze the Song of Solomon in the bible

haha oh my gosh mr. sheehy, that is so messed up. good thing i'm not a harry potter fan :D. Pilate's death makes me mad too! It ruins her whole image of invincibility. yet she dies with such dignity and fearlessly. and although Hagar's death upset me as well, i guess it beats the whole cliche of women growing stronger and moving on or whatever.

i really do NOT understand the names in this book. Pilate is the one who kills Jesus because he is pressured to, but Pilate in this book can't be pressured by anybody to do anything that she doesn't think is right. Circe, isn't she the one that keeps Ulysses on that island for years and years? i don't see how that relates either. With the name Dead, i felt like that name was chosen because their family was stuck, they couldn't "fly," so it was like they were dead i guess? but then Milkman's grandfather didn't seem dead to me at all.

and with Hagar's death... Morrison can't be trying to say that women are weak and obsessive with men, because only two women are portrayed that way, three if you want to count Ruth. Hagar's own mother and sister are very strong. But she was babied and spoiled. Maybe she's saying that experience is essential for survival? Corinthians, Ruth, and Hagar were all protected or shut out from hard times by their family. Well, i can't say that Corinthians was exactly shut out from hard times, for she experienced her own personal obstacles. but she was protected from outside obstacles, i guess you can say.

7th Harry Potter Book

For every 12 hours without a post, I leak a new piece of information about the last Harry Potter book (spoiling it for all of you who have not read it yet). In the last book, Harry realizes that James Potter (his father) is actually Lord Voldemort. He killed Lily Potter because she was cheating on him with a werewolf. Reminded me a lot of Empire Strikes Back.

Start posting before I ruin the entire book for you.

SHeehy

Favorite Paragraph

I couldn't resist. I think I have found a new favorite paragraph.

"Then let me give you a cool one," he said. He soaped and rubbed her until her skin squeaked and glistened like onyx. SHe put salve on his face. He washed her hair. She sprinkled talcum on his feet. He straddled her behind and massaged her back. SHe put witch hazel on his swollen neck. He made up the bed. SHe gave him gumbo to eat. He washed the dishes. She washed his clothes and hung them out to dry. He scoured her tub. She ironed his shirt and pants. He gave her fifty dollars. She kissed his mouth. He touched her face. She said please come back. He said I'll see you tonight.

Are We Finished?

I assume most of you are finished and are itching to move on to The Milagro Beanfield War. But before we move on, what did you think of Song of Solomon? I have always had difficulty with the end of the novel for a number of reasons: Pilate’s death angers me, Guitar’s part in the death goes against the all that he represents, Hagar’s death upsets me, and much more. What did you think? Any personal response would be nice.

Aside from the gut responses, what did you find interesting about the novel. Naming/Names are very important in this novel, so does anyone have an answer so some of the names and their significance? Particularly Dead, Pilate, Circe, and Guitar.

I found a number of fairy tale references/allusions throughout the novel and I can’t seem to make sense of them…perhaps you all can help. The “secret power Rumpelstiltskin had given her: to see golden thread stream from her very own shuttle” (13-14); “When Hansel and Gretel stood…” (219); “Witches in black dresses and red underskirts…” (239); and “She lay in her little Goldilocks’-choice bed…” (314). I know these are purposeful, I just am not sure of the purpose.

Also, any comment on Milkman’s journey back to his ancestral past? He leaves the city, loses most of his goods, learns his history, and learns how to fly. Lots to comment on here.

What about Hagar’s death? I would love to hear from the ladies in the class about what Morrison might be suggesting with this death.

It is hard for me when I check our blog and see so few responses. I hoped this would be a forum for you all to discuss/debate/agree/etc.

Hope you all are well.

Sheehy

I am done reading...

I'm done reading "Song of Solomon." I understand the title and the song now. I thought the book explained most of the unclarities in the end. I liked it. I am moving on to "The Milagro Beanfield War."

oh yeah.. and ester... i dont know u.. but you are really really smart bc i read what u wrote... and it made alot of sense to me... i get what ur saying.


<3>

hey everyone!


okay i have a question? not only did i read this book but i read the song of solomon from the bible thinking there may have been a connection... and i was right! What i am confused about though is if the bible version is being told from Lena or Corinthians point of view as the woman, because it says " i wish you were like my brother who was fed at my mother's breasts!" and it talks about twins alot and things being like velvet rose petals? or am i just dragging this all out? i dunno but i was real interested in that. and its kinda driving me crazy trying to figure it out.. so some insight would be incredbile :)...



<3>

i guess what she means by her being a small woman is that she wasn't really exposed to anything, she didn't really have many experiences in life. i guess with the encounter of the outside world and the sense of danger and excitement you get from adventures, big or small like the ones the Milkman and Guitar went through when they were kids, sort of makes you bigger or expands your self, your personality and your knowledge of the world. all she knew was her father all her life, he was her sense of security. its like a puppy and its owner, the owner seems like the all powerful knowledgeable master while the puppy is just ..a puppy. i guess she felt that her dad knew everything and could take care of anything and was, as she said, big, while she didnt think she knew anything and looked up to her dad for support and all that.

but i dont think she is a small woman and i think she knows that she's not a small woman. she has the ability to drive her husband and her son mad. she shot her husband's blood level up with just a smirk. she knows this too, she knows that what she would say, "yes, i am my daddy's daughter" would get her husband mad, but she said it like it was just a little comment with no real meaning behind it. she keeps herself so calm every time her husband yells or hits her because she knows that its really her husband thats driving himself crazy; she knows that to cry or be bothered by his abuse would satisfy him. her whole "i am a small woman" speech was an attempt to justify herself.

and the juxtaposition of milkman's birth and the insurance man's death, i wasn't really sure what to make of that. but it seems like the whole peacock thing sort of ties into it. the peacock is obviously referring to macon, perhaps the death of the insurance man is foreshadowing milkman's fate if he doesn't "take the jewels off". the insurance man tried to fly yet his weight was what brought him down and killed him. the text repeats that milkman wants to fly and relates the peacock who is unable to fly because of the jewels to milkman who is unable to fly because of his vanity, his family, his past. perhaps what the author is trying to say is that he has to let go of the past in order to be able to fly. his family's past is driving him crazy.

dream or reality?

oooookay, you guys are all obviously ahead of me. but one thing i have confused are Milkman's dreams. Like, i can't tell whether he's dreaming or not? Because he tells these surreal happenings in the middle of what seems to be an actual scene, like the one where he was walking in the crowd and everybody was pushing past him walking on one side, i thought that really happened because wasn't that when he was looking for Guitar after he hit his father? and then later he says "He remembered that long-ago evening after he hit his father how everybody was crammed on one side of the street... Nobody was going his way. It was as though Guitar had been in that dream too." But i thought that really happened, i am so confused. Also when he was telling of the "dream" he had of his mother, when she was planting tulips and they were growing and suffocating and killing her, he says "...he began to describe to Guitar a dream he had had about his mother. He called it a dream because he didn't want to tell him it had really happened, that he had really seen it." So... is it a dream or not? Or is he just a crazy guy that has these crazy hallucinations?

My first!

Sheehy, since I don't know how else to contact you but here... Ester asked for me to ask you to add her to this blog. Her email is estersongkim@gmail.com.
Oh and a question I have is about the watermark. The book says that she tried many ways to get it off, but then she really depends on it.
And that was interesting... I didn't know the stout woman was Ruth, the pregnant lady. Because I thought that Guitar had called the stout lady Granny; unless it was somebody else? :T Confusion there.

I read the part were Ruth tells Milkman her version of the story of her sucking her dead father's fingers, who has it right, Ruth or Macon Dead?? Judging by what she did with Milkman, breast-feed him even though he was too old for that, and that part where it talks about Ruth's unappropiate excitement when her father kissed her good-night, I think Ruth is perverted, that she did have a sexual relationship with her father. It seems to me that she is the kind of woman that needs a man in her life to give like a purpose or meaning to her life, I think so because she mentioned something like that when she was on her way to see Hagar to talk her out of killing Milkman. So she needs a man, and when she has one she like cares about only that man, like obsessed to the point that it turns into something like a perverted kind of love.......maybe.....what do you guys think???

I'm not sure why, but Morrison has a way of just making the story flow... I hardley noticed I had read 100 pages until my mom turned off my stereo for being too loud at 10 pm.
Why doesn't Pilate have a navel? That part was just creepy, in the effects of sci-fi and aliens....
Christy

It has been pretty quiet out there—I hope everyone is doing the reading. In fact, I want you to be finished with Part One very soon (day or two). When you finish Part One, feel free to respond to any of the following questions (or post questions of your own).

As a female writer, does Morrison accurately portray her male characters? This novel was her first attempt using a male protagonist, is she successful?

Part One focuses on three families—Pilate, Reba, and Hagar; Macon, Ruth, and children; Dr. Forster and Ruth. Each of these families is dysfunctional in their own way. How do the relationships in these families influence specific characters? For example, why does Hagar become crazy with her “anaconda love?” What do you make of Ruth’s “I am a small woman” speech? Magdalene and First Corinthians are relatively stagnant and without love, do you blame the men in their life for inability to function as adult women?

Milkman’s birth is simultaneous with the suicide of a man who leaps from the roof of the hospital. Any significance or reason for the juxtaposition of these two events?

Guitar and the Seven Days. There are many flaws in Guitar’s argument when he explains his involvement with the Seven Days, but I am curious if anyone thinks Guitar is somewhat justified and why. Also, I remember when I first studied this novel, a teacher told me that the Seven Days was grounded in historical truth. That was years ago. If someone would research this and share what they learn, I am sure we would all appreciate it.

The peacock becomes an obvious symbol, and potential foreshadowing, as we learn that peacocks cannot fly because “all that jewelry weighs it down. Like vanity. Cant nobody fly with all that shit. Wanna fly, you got to five up the shit that weighs you down.” Perhaps something here.

I admit that I still haven’t made much sense of Pilate’s lack of a navel. Her smooth stomach isolates her from society, since those who know of her condition shun her. Moreover, her physical condition symbolizes her thorough independence of others (even as a fetus…I guess). But what else? Anyone with something interesting to add to Pilate would be helpful.

These are just some starters…what else shall we talk about?

I have begun to read, but I am confused in some parts of the reading. How old is the boy? How come Ruth panicks about being seen breastfeeding him? Also how come Mr. Dead is so jealous of Milkman?

Mr. Sample's first entry

Hello. I read Mr. Sheehy's admonition to use my own name after I had chosen this identity, so - sorry. I'll change if I can figure it out easily. I have read the first four chapters and can't understand why I'm not more enthusiastic about this writer. I admire her skill and I strongly feel the power of her characters and plots while I'm reading her work. Yes, she is obviously didactic and ideological, but I like other such writers, Jonathan Swift, for instance. Perhaps I simply don't my discomfort with racial issues: after all this time, I'm often unsure what to say or do about race in America. I don't mean to solve the problem, and I don't mean to decide how I should treat people I meet; I mean that I don't know how to react to racial bitterness or anger, much of which seems justified to me. And so I wonder if that confusion makes me reluctant to take Morrison more deeply into myself.

Don't be Scared

Happy 4th of July to all. I just want to remind everyone to contribute when you can. I think the book is a page turner and wouldnt be surprised if many of you finish it by next week. If you do, dont be afraid to post something in fear that you may spoil the plot for another student. Also, start responding to each other. This is not a question and answer session with the teacher, this is a class discussion.

What you post can be as simple as "I like..." or "That part reminded me of..."

Sheehy

I'm Confused

i've just started reading and im afraid of moving on because im getting confused with the scene on Not Doctor Street(pgs 4-9). With the pregnant lady and her kids, plus the singer, and some stout woman. Is the stout woman the pregnant person? i just need some clearing up. And the insurance guy is still about to jump off right? or did he jump already...AND, why are there hospital people outside? sorry...im just very confused. so i stopped there. clarifications would be much appreciated!!

YOURS TRULY, Tu-Uyen =)

Another Question

about the same scene. there was something about her "mouth on the dead man's fingers." and i was wondering what that was about. did she have an affair? and if not what turned sour in their relationship, cause it seemed like Macon and Ruth were romantic at sometime but now he's disgusted by her.

Question

I'm confused. Chapter one, page 16. Morrison describes the sex scene. Is that between Ruth & Macon or Ruth & Milkman?

Let's get started!

Welcome back everyone, here’s to a summer of interesting books and lively discussion. The rules here are pretty loose. Obviously we should be respectful of each other when we post responses/questions/comments/etc. just as we would in a classroom setting. Also, I would appreciate it if you would include your name with your posting (because some of you just have silly email names). There will be no timetable or schedule, I just hope you read a little each week so that we can finish Morrison’s Song of Solomon by the end of July.

For those of you who have started reading, there is already much to talk about. Chapter one is dense, so I will point out a few things to get us started.

First, notice the book begins with the failed flight and subsequent death of Robert Smith. Flight is a motif in Song of Solomon. As a metaphor, flight can represent any number of things (personal freedom, spiritual triumph, supernatural powers, abandonment of others, triumph, risk, etc.). For more background information, check out the African folktale “The People Who Could Fly.” Other items we might discuss are the water mark as a symbol, the naming of characters and the significance of names, Ruth and breastfeeding, and Pilate…to name a few.

With Morrison, I have always appreciated how she mixes the real and the fantastic--how she intertwines history with myth and folklore—but I realize that some may find this very difficult. So please ask questions, because together we can find acceptable answers.

Sheehy

MR.SHEEHY!!!

Mr. Sheehy, Im going to be reading my book this first week of July but i will not have any computer access, as i will be out of town...what should i do???

when do we

start? no one has posted ne thing yet so i decided to...